ILNews

Taking them at their word

Marilyn Odendahl
May 8, 2013
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Indiana Lawyer Focus

To understand how difficult the work of a court interpreter is, try this simple test.

Turn on the television and repeat everything the commentator says. Word for word, say exactly what is spoken. Do not summarize. Do not substitute or change the words. Do not leave out or add words and sentences.

Now, using a different language, repeat everything the commentator says.

Court interpreters are the conduit through which individuals not proficient in English can speak and understand the judicial system. In translating what the judges, attorneys, defendants, and witnesses say in the courtroom, the interpreters are key to ensuring the rights of non-English speakers are protected.

15col-IL_Interpreter03.jpg Vivian Kurzendoerfer, a certified court interpreter, ensures Spanish-speaking individuals understand what is being said in court. (IBJ Photo/ Perry Reichanadter)

Marion Superior Judge Jose Salinas does not have to imagine what courtrooms would be like without these interpreters. He remembers when he started practicing law in the mid-1990s the system by which interpreters were supplied to defendants was practically nonexistent. His Spanish-speaking clients often had to rely on a family member or friend to tell them what the judge was saying.

Now, the Marion County courts have a pool of educated, well-trained interpreters to call upon. These people repeat, word for word, what is said during the proceeding so the defendant or witness understands what is happening.

“In Marion County, we have come a long way in protecting the rights of the individual,” Salinas said in reference to the interpreter program. “The main thing is protecting people’s rights.”

Words, words, words

Vivian Kurzendoerfer is among the interpreters who have translated court proceedings in Marion and some of the surrounding counties. She became certified through the Indiana Supreme Court in 2009.

Working in the court system, Kurzendoerfer has realized attorneys and judges often have to learn how to function when an interpreter is in the room. Primarily, they need to speak directly to the non-English-speaking individual and, for the most part, ignore the interpreter.

She recounted an incident where a lawyer addressed Kurzendoerfer and not the witness. The attorney said, “Ask her if … , ” so Kurzendoerfer interpreted literally with, “Ask her if …” to which the witness replied, “Ask who?”

What ensued was almost a comedy of errors until Kurzendoerfer told the judge she, as the interpreter, wanted to interrupt and explain what was happening.

A native of Puerto Rico, Kurzendoerfer grew up not only speaking Spanish but also learning legal terminology from her lawyer father. Yet, even with her background and extensive training, she said interpreting is “mentally exhausting.”

By herself, Kurzendoerfer can interpret for about two hours before she needs a break. When she tag teams a trial with another interpreter, she gets a break every 30 minutes.

Outside of the courtroom, she will cluster with the other interpreters.

“We are so boring,” Kurzendoerfer said. “We’re such nerds, all we talk about is words.”

Usually the interpreter will sit next to the defendant and interpret, in a low voice, everything that is being said in court. When the defendant responds to the judge or asks questions, the interpreter will relay the communication in English.

Interpreters have to be well-versed in legal terms. The Spanish language alone has three words for “probation” and DNA translates as ADN. Moreover, clichés and colloquialisms can provide special obstacles. For example, the phrase “drop in the bucket” will lose its meaning if interpreted directly.

Tippecanoe Superior Judge Michael Morrissey has used interpreters for native speakers of Spanish, Mandarin Chinese and Hindi. Occasionally there have also been Russian and Vietnamese speakers.

“It’s so vital to give everyone who appears in court a fair hearing,” he said.

Morrissey does not see the need for interpreters declining in the future. He noted even second and third generations still speak their parents’ native language. On top of this, even if they speak English, they want an interpreter in court because they feel more comfortable in their native language.

In Marion County, Salinas does not anticipate needing fewer interpreters. In fact, he believes more languages will have to be covered going forward.

carrillo Carrillo

Certification

In 2002, Indiana joined the National Center for State Courts’ Consortium for State Court Interpreter Certification and created a certification program especially for interpreters. It is universally described as a rigorous program that produces qualified and capable court interpreters.

“I think the certification process our Supreme Court has implemented is a good thing,” Morrissey said. “It assures the relay of information between the individual and the court, and vise versa, is accurate.”

The certification process consists of two exams, one written and the other oral. For the oral section, the candidates are tested by having to interpret what is being said both simultaneously and consecutively. Also, they must read a document and interpret it by sight.

Carlos Carrillo, attorney at Ball Eggleston P.C. in Lafayette, became certified after being encouraged to do so by a colleague. He compared the difficulty of passing the certification exam to that of passing the bar.

To prepare for the oral exam, Carrillo spent four hours after dinner each night studying over a period of two and a half months. Much of his time was devoted to listening to the radio or television and simultaneously interpreting what was being said.

“I don’t think that I’d want to do it again,” he said of becoming certified. “I don’t regret doing it. It made me a better attorney. I will always be grateful for the training I got from it.”

The difficult part of the oral exam was matching the registers, Carrillo said.

Spanish and English have three registers. The high register includes professional language or the legal terms and phrases used in the judicial system. The middle register is common, everyday language while the lower register is mostly slang and profanity.

Interpreters must retain the register of the speakers. For example, if the judge tells the defendant, “You will be incarcerated,” the interpreter cannot translate that to the defendant as, “You’re going to jail.”

Changing a register and not interpreting everything exactly as it is said can mean the difference between a conviction and an acquittal, Carrillo said.

As an attorney with many Spanish-speaking clients, Carrillo has witnessed bad interpreting. During a custody hearing, the mother brought her own interpreter but that interpreter, he said, left out 40 percent of what was being discussed.

He conceded that having qualified interpreters in courtrooms is an added expense but, echoing Salinas, emphasized the need to protect the rights of the individuals.

“It is important that all persons have their day in court and that they have an opportunity to present their case,” Carrillo said. “The only way this is possible for non-English-speaking persons is by having properly trained interpreters. This is why interpreters have become an integral part of our legal system.”•

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  1. This guy sounds like the classic molester/manipulator.

  2. Louis D. Brandeis was born in 1856. At 9 years of age it would have been 1865. The Brandeis family did not own slaves. My source Louis D. Brandeis: A Life, by Melvin L. Urofsky.

  3. My name is Matthew Lucas Major, I recently went through a jury trial in Bloomington , In. It was the week of Feb 19-21. Although I have been incarcerated since August 5, 2014. The reason I 'am writing to you sir is on the 21 of February the jury came in with a very excessive and wrongful verdict of guilty on 6 child molesting charges against my daughter who was 9 at the time I was accused. I also had 2 other Felonies one of Intimidation and 1 of Sexual Vicarious Gratification. Judge Marc Kellam on the second day of trial gave me a not guilty on those 2 felonies. The jury was sent out during that time and when brought back Judge Kellam told them to not concern themselves with the 2 Felonies that he ruled on them. They were told to not let evidence they had already heard influence there verdicts. I never in my life touched any child sexually and definitely not with my own daughter. When I was arrested Detective Shawn Karr told me I would be convicted guilty just on my daughters word even without evidence. That's just what happened. my public defender did me so wrong he never once proved to the court and jury all the lies the child told, and Jeremy Noel my public defender could of proven the lies easily. The stories in Serenity's depositions and Forensic interview changed and were not consistent as Prosecutor Darcie Fawcett claimed they were. Yet my attorney never mentioned that. The facts that the child accused me of full penetration in her vagina and rectum was proven lies. Doctor Roberta Hibbard of Riley hospital in Indianapolis confirmed Serenity's hymen intact, no scars, no tearing, no signs of rape to her. Yet my attorney didn't use that knowledge . the DNA was all in my favor. I tell you I will spend my entire life in prison going through rape and beatings etc. even Judge Kellam abused his authority by telling the jurors to listen and believe what the prosecutors side in evidence like my daughters testimony. In one interview with the detectives my daughter got flustered with her mom and said on camera " I'm saying what you told me to mom"!! Yet Mr. Noel said nor did anything to even resemble a defense attorney. Judge Kellam allowed edited version of a taped conversation between the child and her mother. Also Judge Kellam allowed the Prosecutor too bring in to my case a knife found under my seat, the knife wasn't part of my case. She was allowed by my attorney and the judge to put a huge picture of it on the screen and huge picture of my naked privates in a full courtroom and open court. Ms. Fawcett says to jury see how easy Mr. Major could reach the knife and cut his Childs throat. Even though I had no weapons charge against these cases. This gave the jurors prejudice thought against me thinking I threatened her with that knife and how scared she would of been knowing i could get it and kill her. On my sentencing court March 19, 2014 my public defender told Judge Kellam he wish to resign from being my attorney and wished for the court to give me outside council to file a error to trial or appeal. We were denied. Now after openly knowing my public defender don't want to represent me he has to. Well when as parents we make our kids clean a room when they really don't wish to, well the child will but don't mean she will do a good job, that's where I'm at with Mr. Noel. please dont ignore mine and my families pleas for your help . we have all the legal proof you could need to prove Im innocent. Please dont make my spend years in prison innocent when you can fix this wrong. Im not saying Im a perfect man or that I was a perfect dad to my 2 children none of us are. Ive made some bad choices in life and I paid for them. But I didnt ever touch or rape my daughter . I love my children with all my heart. And now through needing attention and a ex-wife who told my granny several times she wish she could put me in prison to get me out of their lives. Well my ex finally accomplished her goal. Sad part is she is destroying our daughter with all this horrific lies and things she taught my daughter to say. My daughter will need therapist to ever hope for a chance of a normal life after what she had done to her by her mom and their side of the family. My daughter told everyone even on stand she had a dream months before i supposedly molested her in this dream I was molesting her and when I finally did it matched her dream perfectly. She admitted to watching movies about little girls being molested and watching U-Tube videos about child molesting all before it happened supposedly to her. Doesn't that sound very unusual that a non molested 9 yr old would need to know so much about being molested? The only reason I could think a 9 year old would need so much information is to be prepared to know what to say and be able to say how it felt what took place etc.. So when questioned by authorities she would be prepared. And there again sir if a parent is pre grooming a 9 year old child she would need intimate details . Like telling her daughter about a couple moles on my private area. The child admitted to sneaking my cell and looking many many times at nudes of me and my girlfriend even one where my penis was entering my girlfriends vagina. In that picture my moles are obvious. Yet when prosecutor showed everyone in court my privates and pictures of the moles she said the only way the child would know about them is if she saw them for herself. My attorney once again said nothing about the pictures my child saw. Or could a ex-wife be able to describe my moles to help her case against getting rid of me? I beg you help me. This is my very existence. Ive lost everything , a good job, a wonderful girlfriend, my freedom, but worse thing Ive lost is my children. They were my reason to get up every morning and strive to be better. The wonderful bond I had with my Serenity is gone. After this I would be afraid to even hug her for fear of what next can they do to me. I'm not afraid to tell you I sit here in this cell and try to hold back my tears. Everyone knows you cant show weakness in prison. My life has already been threatened here at Wabash Valley Prison. After only 3 days of arrival. I was tricked into signing a waiver now Im in G Block General Population with 6 child molesting felony charges. Mrs. Hart as a 18 year old I almost died hooked to machines in hospital almost 1 month and now I know that fear was childish compared to this . I cant help but put emotions in this, after all Mrs. Hart Im human and God help Me I never been more afraid in my life. I didnt hurt my little girl I didnt touch her sexually. As much as it shreds me and fills my mind what Im facing I worry more about my mom and granny because of their great love for me mam they are suffering so deeply. I aint done this things but my loved ones suffering right along beside me and If you take my case you will be in essence freeing them also. I sent momma this letter and asked her to email it to you. I'm scared I have been done so unjustly by our legal system and I need you to fix this and give me freedom. I ask you please don't just ignore my pleas. Here in America its nice to be able to trust our legal justice system, well they destroyed my and my loved ones trust in our justice system . And I'm trusting in You !!! My entire family is suffering this nightmare with me. My 77 year old granny had a stroke and isn't doing so well. My single mother that raised 3 kids alone is dying from Lupus and since my arrest has stayed so sick and weary. Our lives torn to peices by a government I was taught I could trust in. my momma has tried so many innocent project and wrongfully accused and cant get anywhere. please please help me. A quote from the late Nelson Mandela: To be free is not merely to cast off ones chains, But to live in a way that respects and enhances The Freedom Of Others. I have Faith in you and your clinic to cast my chains off and give me freedom I do deserve as a wrongfully accused Man, son, brother, father, friend. Matthew Major DOC# 246179 Cause # : 53c02-1308-FA-000779 God Bless you. Please contact me with your decision so I know you made a life changing decision for me , just please at least write me so I know you care enough about your citizens to respond to cries for your help. You can speak openly with my mother Charlotte Spain (828) 476-0406: 71 Lakeview Dr. Canton, NC 28716 Thank You Matthew Major I know yall get thousands of request and inmates claiming innocence, and each person who are innocent deserve to have organizations like yours willing to fight for them and I give yall so much Thanks and I thank God everyday yall are out there caring enough to help free the innocents. Since discovering firsthand how easily lives and families can be destroyed by Poor Defense attorneys not doing their job . And Prosecutors allowed to do as they please in court

  4. Frankly, it is tragic that you are even considering going to an expensive, unaccredited "law school." It is extremely difficult to get a job with a degree from a real school. If you are going to make the investment of time, money, and tears into law school, it should not be to a place that won't actually enable you to practice law when you graduate.

  5. As a lawyer who grew up in Fort Wayne (but went to a real law school), it is not that hard to find a mentor in the legal community without your school's assistance. One does not need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to an unaccredited legal diploma mill to get a mentor. Having a mentor means precisely nothing if you cannot get a job upon graduation, and considering that the legal job market is utterly terrible, these students from Indiana Tech are going to be adrift after graduation.

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