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Leadership in Law 2014: John C. Render

Shareholder, Hall Render Killian Heath & Lyman P.C., Indianapolis • Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law, 1971

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15col-Render.jpg John C. Render (Submitted photo)

If asked to name Indiana’s premiere health care attorneys, the name John C. Render is among those that top the list. John has been instrumental not only in the growth of the law firm that bears his name, but also in the development of local health care law and regulations. He spent 32 years as general counsel to the Indiana Hospital Association and was an adjunct instructor at Indiana University for more than two decades in its graduate program in health care administration. Students remember him as an influential instructor who was funny, had great stories and taught them a lot about the law. In fact, current Hall Render chairman William H. Thompson, a former student of John’s, was so influenced by him that he went to law school specifically to practice health care law.

If you couldn’t be a lawyer, what would you do for a living?

I probably would have taught. I started life as a high school English teacher and went to law school at night.

What was the worst or most memorable job you had prior to becoming an attorney?

I worked in the steel mills in Lake County for a time between a couple semesters of college. It reinforced in my mind that I didn’t want to do manual labor for the rest of my life. I wanted to earn a living with my mind and not my back.

Why do you practice in the area of law that you do?

Happenstance. I was in law school and I was teaching. One summer a friend went to work for the Indiana Hospital Association, called me up and said, “We are looking for someone.” They hired me for the summer. The next summer they called me back. I met their general counsel, and we got to know each other the second year. The president of the association and Mr. William Hall said, “We’d like you to stay here, and if you stay you can work for the Hospital Association and work with Mr. Hall in a clerkship situation.” I thought about it for five seconds, so I resigned from teaching and started working for the Hospital Association. When I graduated and passed the bar we started Hall Render in 1971.

How has health care law changed since you started?

It’s become an enormous industry. When I started it was a lot of hospitals, but it’s become such a multibillion-dollar industry in terms of both organizational aspects and demand for service. As more people are covered by insurance and public programs, demand has escalated. That, in turn, has grown our clients enormously, and as they have grown, we have grown, too.

What’s been the biggest change in the overall practice of law you’ve seen since you began?

One of the bigger changes is the proliferation of advertising with regard to trying to get clients. I am not convinced that it’s the right way to choose legal counsel or choose a cardiovascular surgeon because he has a billboard on (Interstate) 465. Law, medicine, all professions need to do a better job of informing the public about the people who are available to do work and provide services, their professional qualifications, etc. But I don’t think the professionals themselves are the best to provide that information. We all have a tendency to overstate our qualifications and talents. Me advertising on Lucas Oil Stadium does not make me the right lawyer to solve a problem.

We hear a lot about civility. Have you noticed a change in how attorneys treat each other since you began practicing?

It’s changed. I’m not sure if it’s a product of the profession or byproduct of society. I really think advertising has contributed to this. It has demeaned the profession in my mind, made us look like hucksters. There was a time when law and medicine were looked at as upstanding ethical professions. I think we still have those standards, but societal and other changes in the bar have caused a reduction in both civility and collegiality. I’m a believer that you can be collegial and can work with opponents and still zealously represent your clients. One thing I’ve learned and most lawyers will tell this, if you treat your opponents and their clients with courtesy and respect and still do the job vigorously, that client sometimes down the line will hire you. If answer is too long for print, cut highlighted section.

Why do you think people often have negative stereotypes about lawyers?

One of the major reasons is people come to lawyers mostly in situations of great trauma – personal or business distress, divorce, being sued, having criminal charge. If it doesn’t go right or they don’t get the right result, or think the lawyer charged too much or did too little, there can be a lot of negative feelings about that. You’ve got to be very effective and empathetic in dealing with people when they have legal problems. You may have seen this problem 50 times before, but it’s the most important thing in their life.


What’s something about you not many people know?

I like to occasionally bake things, mostly pies. One of my grandmothers, in an attempt to have me spend time with her as a little kid, taught me to bake pies.

What are some tips for achieving a work/life balance?

Whatever time you spend at the office, when you leave the office, don’t take it with you. I think when you leave, leave; and when you come back, do your work there. Whatever number of hours you put into the practice of law, you can fill. There is always something to do. If you want to put in 18 hours, there’s something to do.

What civic cause is the most important to you?

I admire certain charities a great deal like Salvation Army and St. Vincent DePaul and charities that minister to the poor.

Who is your favorite fictional lawyer?

Jake Brigance in “A Time to Kill.”

You’ve written many law review articles and contributed to papers on medical-legal subjects. What do you enjoy about writing?

I think it’s the component of teaching and scholarship. I’ve always enjoyed that kind of thing.

What’s something you’ve learned over the years that you wish you could go back in time and tell your younger self?

I would tell my younger self in high school and early college to be much more focused on academics and so forth. I was a good student, but I was just fortunate to be smart enough.

What class do you wish you could have skipped in law school?

Trust and estates and future interests. I never enjoyed that.

Is there a moment in your career you wish you could do over?

I’ve really enjoyed health law. I tell young people if you can find something to do that you really enjoy and make a living out of it, like I’ve been fortunate to do, your life is going to largely be very happy. I kind of wish I had been academically more focused early one, both college and law school, and been able to concentrate more on my studies. I, like a lot of people in both college and law school, had to work, so I never really felt like I had the full college experience, so to speak.

 

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  1. The voices of the prophets are more on blogs than subway walls these days, Dawn. Here is the voice of one calling out in the wilderness ... against a corrupted judiciary ... that remains corrupt a decade and a half later ... due to, so sadly, the acquiescence of good judges unwilling to shake the forest ... for fear that is not faith .. http://www.ogdenonpolitics.com/2013/09/prof-alan-dershowitz-on-indiana.html

  2. So I purchased a vehicle cash from the lot on West Washington in Feb 2017. Since then I found it the vehicle had been declared a total loss and had sat in a salvage yard due to fire. My title does not show any of that. I also have had to put thousands of dollars into repairs because it was not a solid vehicle like they stated. I need to find out how to contact the lawyers on this lawsuit.

  3. It really doesn't matter what the law IS, if law enforcement refuses to take reports (or take them seriously), if courts refuse to allow unrepresented parties to speak (especially in Small Claims, which is supposedly "informal"). It doesn't matter what the law IS, if constituents are unable to make effective contact or receive any meaningful response from their representatives. Two of our pets were unnecessarily killed; court records reflect that I "abandoned" them. Not so; when I was denied one of them (and my possessions, which by court order I was supposed to be able to remove), I went directly to the court. And earlier, when I tried to have the DV PO extended (it expired while the subject was on probation for violating it), the court denied any extension. The result? Same problems, less than eight hours after expiration. Ironic that the county sheriff was charged (and later pleaded to) with intimidation, but none of his officers seemed interested or capable of taking such a report from a private citizen. When I learned from one officer what I needed to do, I forwarded audio and transcript of one occurrence and my call to law enforcement (before the statute of limitations expired) to the prosecutor's office. I didn't even receive an acknowledgement. Earlier, I'd gone in to the prosecutor's office and been told that the officer's (written) report didn't match what I said occurred. Since I had the audio, I can only say that I have very little faith in Indiana government or law enforcement.

  4. One can only wonder whether Mr. Kimmel was paid for his work by Mr. Burgh ... or whether that bill fell to the citizens of Indiana, many of whom cannot afford attorneys for important matters. It really doesn't take a judge(s) to know that "pavement" can be considered a deadly weapon. It only takes a brain and some education or thought. I'm glad to see the conviction was upheld although sorry to see that the asphalt could even be considered "an issue".

  5. In response to bryanjbrown: thank you for your comment. I am familiar with Paul Ogden (and applaud his assistance to Shirley Justice) and have read of Gary Welsh's (strange) death (and have visited his blog on many occasions). I am not familiar with you (yet). I lived in Kosciusko county, where the sheriff was just removed after pleading in what seems a very "sweetheart" deal. Unfortunately, something NEEDS to change since the attorneys won't (en masse) stand up for ethics (rather making a show to please the "rules" and apparently the judges). I read that many attorneys are underemployed. Seems wisdom would be to cull the herd and get rid of the rotting apples in practice and on the bench, for everyone's sake as well as justice. I'd like to file an attorney complaint, but I have little faith in anything (other than the most flagrant and obvious) resulting in action. My own belief is that if this was medicine, there'd be maimed and injured all over and the carnage caused by "the profession" would be difficult to hide. One can dream ... meanwhile, back to figuring out to file a pro se "motion to dismiss" as well as another court required paper that Indiana is so fond of providing NO resources for (unlike many other states, who don't automatically assume that citizens involved in the court process are scumbags) so that maybe I can get the family law attorney - whose work left me with no settlement, no possessions and resulted in the death of two pets (etc ad nauseum) - to stop abusing the proceedings supplemental and small claims rules and using it as a vehicle for harassment and apparently, amusement.

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