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Judge advocates expanding Gideon to provide lawyers in non-criminal cases

Marilyn Odendahl
July 31, 2013
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While some legal scholars lament the deterioration of Gideon v. Wainwright 50 years after the landmark Supreme Court of the United States decision, Marion Superior Judge David Dreyer is calling for an expansion of the principle to include civil litigants.

dreyercivil-15col.jpg Marion Superior Judge David Dreyer (IL Photo/ Aaron P. Bernstein)

He has put his ideas into an academic article and plans to continue his research for his dissertation work at the National Judicial College. The basic premise of his paper is that in almost every civil case, people should be assured of having access to legal advice and representation. Without that, the fairness of the judicial system becomes questionable.  

“What’s at stake to me is the rule of law because, to me, ensuring access to justice in civil cases for everyone is a basic tenant of national security and civil order,” Dreyer said. “If people felt like they had redress, which we say we do in America, then there would be less alienation.”

His paper, “Déjà vu All Over Again: Turner v. Rogers and the Civil Right to Counsel,” which is to be published in Drake Law Review, examines the history and court opinions on civil right to counsel. It also pays attention to the barriers to obtaining counsel and the consequences of not having representation.

Dreyer looks at the idea of civil right to counsel through the U.S. Supreme Court case Turner v. Rogers, 131 S. Ct. 2507 (2011).

In that case, a South Carolina man who was $5,728.76 behind in child support payments was jailed for 12 months after a civil contempt hearing. Both parties were unrepresented by counsel at trial.

Once the man was released, he argued the U.S. Constitution entitled him to counsel at his contempt hearing. The majority found that the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment does not require civil counsel be provided to indigent individuals at contempt hearings even if that individual’s liberty is at stake.

Dreyer believes the court accepted the case because it wanted to take a close look at the notion of civil right to counsel. In fact, he maintains, the justices really wanted to grant this right but, in the end, they couldn’t.

Some advocates for civil counsel see progress in the ruling, or at least read it as better than nothing. Dreyer understands that point of view but also agrees with the opposite interpretation that the decision is really the same decision that has been handed down by courts in years past.

Hence, he turned to baseball legend Yogi Berra to encapsulate what the Turner v. Rogers ruling is: “Déjà vu all over again.”

Dreyer asked: How can it be fair when people do not have access to advice and representation from lawyers because they do not have money? He, along with others, thinks that question has never been satisfactorily answered, and he is not convinced it could ever be fair.

“If you don’t have a lawyer, you’re not represented,” Dreyer said. “What we’re being pushed to is the acceptance of a system where people won’t have lawyers and that’s OK. And we shouldn’t be having that.”

Getting the data

Dreyer now wants to shift his focus to putting hard numbers to the debate over civil right to counsel. Currently, the arguments are all theoretical since no tangible, practical calculation exists.

Indeed, he noted, the idea that we cannot have due process in some situations without lawyers is not based on any hard data or empirical evidence.

Dreyer plans to compare the experiences and outcomes between those who are and are not represented by an attorney. He hopes to reach beyond Indiana and include other jurisdictions in the United States and, perhaps, abroad.

His tentative hypothesis reflects his concerns over fairness: “The data will show that a lack of access to advice and representation almost always, if not always, is a significant and substantial impediment,” he said. “It affects results. It affects justice. It affects the quality of people’s lives who are involved in the system.”

Mandatory access

Dreyer’s call for a civil right to counsel is an extension of his earlier push to change the legal profession’s thinking about pro bono. In his 2009 paper, “Culture, Structure, and Pro Bono Practice,” Dreyer advocated for the profession to help indigent clients by moving away from primarily relying on the attorneys’ personal preference to do pro bono and instead mandate lawyers to provide access to the courts, although he left open what that exactly means for attorneys.

Coining the term “mandatory access” to replace the “outdated ‘pro bono’ professional idea,” the Marion County judge wrote in 2009, “Instead of considering only what is preferred by the profession, we must focus on what is necessary to maintain the system.”

Four years later, Dreyer sees a real chance for creativity and ingenuity in determining how to provide civil litigants access. He is welcoming to all approaches that achieve that goal.

Some of the new ideas for providing civil representation, he said, might involve bolstering financial resources, possibly through higher filing fees. Another possibility is that money could be shifted within pro bono programs to pay attorneys, or a voucher system could be created where the indigent clients could pay with a voucher, which the lawyers could then cash.

Dreyer also suggested that resources could be diverted from poor relief into legal services. This, in turn, might eventually alleviate some of the need for government assistance like food stamps and unemployment benefits because the legal issue, which is often at the root of the problem, is resolved.

In the courtroom

Dreyer has regular interaction with pro se litigants in court. Some are individuals who prefer to represent themselves, but most are people who appear without a lawyer because they cannot afford one.

He leads the process, talking to the pro se litigants, explaining what will happen during the hearing, and asking for the evidence to be presented. If the opposing parties start arguing with each other, Dreyer will take over questioning the witnesses on the stand.

Unlike other judges, Dreyer said he does not hate having self-represented individuals in court, but he acknowledged the system works much better when attorneys handle the cases. Attorneys and judges can talk to each other in legal terms where sometimes with pro se litigants, judges will struggle to understand their argument.

Dreyer sees the reasons for not providing civil counsel as centering around the practical, political and financial rather than constitutional concerns. Overcoming those obstacles, he concedes, will take time.

“We didn’t get here overnight so it can’t be changed overnight,” Dreyer said. “But obviously what we’ve done hasn’t worked as well as it should and it has to be changed.”•

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  • UGHH
    IF JUDGES (WHO ARE LAWYERS) STOP MAKING BAD RULINGS (WASH MY BACK I'LL WASH YOURS) AND ARE FAIR WITH UNREPRESENTED LITIGANTS....THEN THE SYSTEM WOULD PROBABLY WORK BETTER. JUDGES GET TOO RULE THE WAY THEY FEEL REGARDLESS OF THE EVIDENCE.
  • working lawyers would bear the brunt
    Lofty pinciples! Without any real plan to implement. Its not enough that every dollar earned by working lawyers get chewed up by taxes including programs for the benefit of the poor (and their advocates and administrators). Now we have to expand free legal help which would dramatically expand the demand for "mandatory pro bono." Golf course lawyers sitting high on the hog in big law may applaud such lofty notions but the other 90% of lawyers out here who dont have time for golf, don't relish the idea of the increasing demands put on us by our capos. A wise old lawyer from down South told me once, "America-- the very rich and the poor against the middle." A middle that keeps getting narrower and narrower every year.
  • Access to Courts, Not Access to Expert
    Just because people are guaranteed access to the courts does not mean they are guaranteed access to an expert to assist them (i.e. an attorney). I have access to the roads, but I do not have the means to hire a professional driver to take me wherever I want to go. Perhaps it is time to force limo drivers to provide their services for free. It costs money, a lot of money, to become an attorney. Why shouldn't it cost money to hire one?

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  1. Am I the only one who sees that the City is essentially giving away the MSA site AND giving millions to build new buildings on the site when this site would be the perfect place for the Justice Complex? Across from City-County, check; keeping it centrally located, check, etc. It's my understanding that the GM site must be purchased by the City from Motors Liquidation Company. STOP WASTING WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND OUR TAX DOLLARS! The Ballard Administration has not been known for it's common sense...never voted for him and never will!

  2. This guy sounds like the classic molester/manipulator.

  3. Louis D. Brandeis was born in 1856. At 9 years of age it would have been 1865. The Brandeis family did not own slaves. My source Louis D. Brandeis: A Life, by Melvin L. Urofsky.

  4. My name is Matthew Lucas Major, I recently went through a jury trial in Bloomington , In. It was the week of Feb 19-21. Although I have been incarcerated since August 5, 2014. The reason I 'am writing to you sir is on the 21 of February the jury came in with a very excessive and wrongful verdict of guilty on 6 child molesting charges against my daughter who was 9 at the time I was accused. I also had 2 other Felonies one of Intimidation and 1 of Sexual Vicarious Gratification. Judge Marc Kellam on the second day of trial gave me a not guilty on those 2 felonies. The jury was sent out during that time and when brought back Judge Kellam told them to not concern themselves with the 2 Felonies that he ruled on them. They were told to not let evidence they had already heard influence there verdicts. I never in my life touched any child sexually and definitely not with my own daughter. When I was arrested Detective Shawn Karr told me I would be convicted guilty just on my daughters word even without evidence. That's just what happened. my public defender did me so wrong he never once proved to the court and jury all the lies the child told, and Jeremy Noel my public defender could of proven the lies easily. The stories in Serenity's depositions and Forensic interview changed and were not consistent as Prosecutor Darcie Fawcett claimed they were. Yet my attorney never mentioned that. The facts that the child accused me of full penetration in her vagina and rectum was proven lies. Doctor Roberta Hibbard of Riley hospital in Indianapolis confirmed Serenity's hymen intact, no scars, no tearing, no signs of rape to her. Yet my attorney didn't use that knowledge . the DNA was all in my favor. I tell you I will spend my entire life in prison going through rape and beatings etc. even Judge Kellam abused his authority by telling the jurors to listen and believe what the prosecutors side in evidence like my daughters testimony. In one interview with the detectives my daughter got flustered with her mom and said on camera " I'm saying what you told me to mom"!! Yet Mr. Noel said nor did anything to even resemble a defense attorney. Judge Kellam allowed edited version of a taped conversation between the child and her mother. Also Judge Kellam allowed the Prosecutor too bring in to my case a knife found under my seat, the knife wasn't part of my case. She was allowed by my attorney and the judge to put a huge picture of it on the screen and huge picture of my naked privates in a full courtroom and open court. Ms. Fawcett says to jury see how easy Mr. Major could reach the knife and cut his Childs throat. Even though I had no weapons charge against these cases. This gave the jurors prejudice thought against me thinking I threatened her with that knife and how scared she would of been knowing i could get it and kill her. On my sentencing court March 19, 2014 my public defender told Judge Kellam he wish to resign from being my attorney and wished for the court to give me outside council to file a error to trial or appeal. We were denied. Now after openly knowing my public defender don't want to represent me he has to. Well when as parents we make our kids clean a room when they really don't wish to, well the child will but don't mean she will do a good job, that's where I'm at with Mr. Noel. please dont ignore mine and my families pleas for your help . we have all the legal proof you could need to prove Im innocent. Please dont make my spend years in prison innocent when you can fix this wrong. Im not saying Im a perfect man or that I was a perfect dad to my 2 children none of us are. Ive made some bad choices in life and I paid for them. But I didnt ever touch or rape my daughter . I love my children with all my heart. And now through needing attention and a ex-wife who told my granny several times she wish she could put me in prison to get me out of their lives. Well my ex finally accomplished her goal. Sad part is she is destroying our daughter with all this horrific lies and things she taught my daughter to say. My daughter will need therapist to ever hope for a chance of a normal life after what she had done to her by her mom and their side of the family. My daughter told everyone even on stand she had a dream months before i supposedly molested her in this dream I was molesting her and when I finally did it matched her dream perfectly. She admitted to watching movies about little girls being molested and watching U-Tube videos about child molesting all before it happened supposedly to her. Doesn't that sound very unusual that a non molested 9 yr old would need to know so much about being molested? The only reason I could think a 9 year old would need so much information is to be prepared to know what to say and be able to say how it felt what took place etc.. So when questioned by authorities she would be prepared. And there again sir if a parent is pre grooming a 9 year old child she would need intimate details . Like telling her daughter about a couple moles on my private area. The child admitted to sneaking my cell and looking many many times at nudes of me and my girlfriend even one where my penis was entering my girlfriends vagina. In that picture my moles are obvious. Yet when prosecutor showed everyone in court my privates and pictures of the moles she said the only way the child would know about them is if she saw them for herself. My attorney once again said nothing about the pictures my child saw. Or could a ex-wife be able to describe my moles to help her case against getting rid of me? I beg you help me. This is my very existence. Ive lost everything , a good job, a wonderful girlfriend, my freedom, but worse thing Ive lost is my children. They were my reason to get up every morning and strive to be better. The wonderful bond I had with my Serenity is gone. After this I would be afraid to even hug her for fear of what next can they do to me. I'm not afraid to tell you I sit here in this cell and try to hold back my tears. Everyone knows you cant show weakness in prison. My life has already been threatened here at Wabash Valley Prison. After only 3 days of arrival. I was tricked into signing a waiver now Im in G Block General Population with 6 child molesting felony charges. Mrs. Hart as a 18 year old I almost died hooked to machines in hospital almost 1 month and now I know that fear was childish compared to this . I cant help but put emotions in this, after all Mrs. Hart Im human and God help Me I never been more afraid in my life. I didnt hurt my little girl I didnt touch her sexually. As much as it shreds me and fills my mind what Im facing I worry more about my mom and granny because of their great love for me mam they are suffering so deeply. I aint done this things but my loved ones suffering right along beside me and If you take my case you will be in essence freeing them also. I sent momma this letter and asked her to email it to you. I'm scared I have been done so unjustly by our legal system and I need you to fix this and give me freedom. I ask you please don't just ignore my pleas. Here in America its nice to be able to trust our legal justice system, well they destroyed my and my loved ones trust in our justice system . And I'm trusting in You !!! My entire family is suffering this nightmare with me. My 77 year old granny had a stroke and isn't doing so well. My single mother that raised 3 kids alone is dying from Lupus and since my arrest has stayed so sick and weary. Our lives torn to peices by a government I was taught I could trust in. my momma has tried so many innocent project and wrongfully accused and cant get anywhere. please please help me. A quote from the late Nelson Mandela: To be free is not merely to cast off ones chains, But to live in a way that respects and enhances The Freedom Of Others. I have Faith in you and your clinic to cast my chains off and give me freedom I do deserve as a wrongfully accused Man, son, brother, father, friend. Matthew Major DOC# 246179 Cause # : 53c02-1308-FA-000779 God Bless you. Please contact me with your decision so I know you made a life changing decision for me , just please at least write me so I know you care enough about your citizens to respond to cries for your help. You can speak openly with my mother Charlotte Spain (828) 476-0406: 71 Lakeview Dr. Canton, NC 28716 Thank You Matthew Major I know yall get thousands of request and inmates claiming innocence, and each person who are innocent deserve to have organizations like yours willing to fight for them and I give yall so much Thanks and I thank God everyday yall are out there caring enough to help free the innocents. Since discovering firsthand how easily lives and families can be destroyed by Poor Defense attorneys not doing their job . And Prosecutors allowed to do as they please in court

  5. Frankly, it is tragic that you are even considering going to an expensive, unaccredited "law school." It is extremely difficult to get a job with a degree from a real school. If you are going to make the investment of time, money, and tears into law school, it should not be to a place that won't actually enable you to practice law when you graduate.

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