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Judge hears arguments on bar exam application suit

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How far the Indiana Board of Law Examiners can go in asking potential lawyers about their mental-health history was the subject of a federal court hearing Wednesday, where attorneys explored the scope of the Americans with Disabilities Act and what might be reasonable in determining someone’s potential fitness to practice law.

Attorneys for the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana and the state’s BLE both appeared before U.S. Judge Tanya Walton Pratt in Indianapolis in the case of Amanda Perdue, et al. v. The Individual Members of the Indiana State Board of Law Examiners, No. 1:09-CV-0842. The two-year-old class-action suit boils down to accusations that certain questions on the state’s bar exam application violate the ADA because those inquiries treat certain applicants differently based on their mental-health history.

The plaintiffs are an Indiana woman who is admitted to practice in Illinois but wants to practice in her home state, as well as the student ACLU chapter at Indiana University School of Law – Indianapolis where some law students say the could be impacted by the controversial questions.

This hearing had been continued from earlier in the summer, and Judge Pratt is determining whether to grant summary judgment for either side or if the case should proceed.

On one side, the plaintiffs focus on four specific questions that they contend are too broad and go beyond what the state should be asking about mental-health history as far as their childhood when only their current states should be considered in the context of conduct and character in practicing law. But the BLE argues that by simply asking these questions, the state is doing nothing wrong and not treating individuals differently; rather the process is gathering more information to determine if a potential concern exists that might impact a person’s ability to practice law.

Attorneys on each side disagree about key points in the case, from what the evidence proves about bar exam applicants’ impact from these types of questions to how the ADA sections apply or don’t allow the questions, and even whether someone can be injured simply by an entity asking about his or her mental illness. The lawyers also disagree on what caselaw from courts nationwide have decided on these issues.

“These questions go way too far and are invalid in all situations,” said the ACLU of Indiana’s legal director Ken Falk. “No jurisdiction in America has temporally open questions like these that Indiana demands answered by those who want to take the exam. And there is no case anywhere that upholds questions as broad and intrusive as this, and multiple ones that strike them down.”

Tony Overholt with Frost Brown Todd represents the BLE and told the judge that Title II of the ADA, which governs public agencies on these issues, allows the mental-health questions to be asked. Although Title I puts limitations on what can be asked by employers and doesn’t allow criteria or different procedures for those who might be disabled, Overholt said Title II doesn’t contain those same restrictions and only prohibits any specific discrimination based on a person’s disability. That is not happening here, he said.

Plaintiffs are mistaken in trying to claim that an actual injury occurs because of the questions being asked, and that only a flat-out rejection of someone who answers affirmatively on those questions would be an ADA violation, he said. Once a potential lawyer answers a question affirmatively, that person fills out a separate form detailing his or her mental-health history so that the BLE can do an individualized-assessment to determine if any possible concern is warranted.

No one has been denied application because of answering the question affirmatively, although the ACLU has included discovery showing that some applicants withdrew their names or didn’t take the bar exam as a result of these questions being asked. The lawyers on the case disagree about what the discovery shows – one side says it proves the questions are ADA violations because it’s restricting, while the other side contends it shows there’s a need to ask them and it’s not rejecting anyone based on their answers.

They disagree on what triggers an “injury” under the ADA, and they have different views on what’s considered reasonable and appropriate questions.

“Unless we categorically deny people based on their disability, we aren’t violating the ADA,” Overholt said. “When someone answers affirmatively, we do what the ADA tells us to and conduct an individualized assessment. No one is treating them as having a disability, we’re just seeking information and starting an interactive dialogue on this.”

Falk said that argument ignores the injury and belittles those who’ve experienced these “scary and demoralizing” mental-health issues and what they must go through just by disclosing these circumstances from their past.

“It is a big deal, and it’s not allowed by the ADA,” he said.

The ACLU wants the judge to declare that these questions violate the ADA, enjoin them from being asked on applications, and leave it open for the BLE to craft more narrow questions based on the various templates that exist nationwide. The state is arguing for summary judgment on the basis that these questions are necessary and reasonable.

Judge Pratt told the attorneys to expect a ruling on the summary judgment motions by the end of September. The previously-scheduled trial dates for November have been vacated.


 

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  1. I have been on this program while on parole from 2011-2013. No person should be forced mentally to share private details of their personal life with total strangers. Also giving permission for a mental therapist to report to your parole agent that your not participating in group therapy because you don't have the financial mean to be in the group therapy. I was personally singled out and sent back three times for not having money and also sent back within the six month when you aren't to be sent according to state law. I will work to het this INSOMM's removed from this state. I also had twelve or thirteen parole agents with a fifteen month period. Thanks for your time.

  2. Our nation produces very few jurists of the caliber of Justice DOUGLAS and his peers these days. Here is that great civil libertarian, who recognized government as both a blessing and, when corrupted by ideological interests, a curse: "Once the investigator has only the conscience of government as a guide, the conscience can become ‘ravenous,’ as Cromwell, bent on destroying Thomas More, said in Bolt, A Man For All Seasons (1960), p. 120. The First Amendment mirrors many episodes where men, harried and harassed by government, sought refuge in their conscience, as these lines of Thomas More show: ‘MORE: And when we stand before God, and you are sent to Paradise for doing according to your conscience, *575 and I am damned for not doing according to mine, will you come with me, for fellowship? ‘CRANMER: So those of us whose names are there are damned, Sir Thomas? ‘MORE: I don't know, Your Grace. I have no window to look into another man's conscience. I condemn no one. ‘CRANMER: Then the matter is capable of question? ‘MORE: Certainly. ‘CRANMER: But that you owe obedience to your King is not capable of question. So weigh a doubt against a certainty—and sign. ‘MORE: Some men think the Earth is round, others think it flat; it is a matter capable of question. But if it is flat, will the King's command make it round? And if it is round, will the King's command flatten it? No, I will not sign.’ Id., pp. 132—133. DOUGLAS THEN WROTE: Where government is the Big Brother,11 privacy gives way to surveillance. **909 But our commitment is otherwise. *576 By the First Amendment we have staked our security on freedom to promote a multiplicity of ideas, to associate at will with kindred spirits, and to defy governmental intrusion into these precincts" Gibson v. Florida Legislative Investigation Comm., 372 U.S. 539, 574-76, 83 S. Ct. 889, 908-09, 9 L. Ed. 2d 929 (1963) Mr. Justice DOUGLAS, concurring. I write: Happy Memorial Day to all -- God please bless our fallen who lived and died to preserve constitutional governance in our wonderful series of Republics. And God open the eyes of those government officials who denounce the constitutions of these Republics by arbitrary actions arising out capricious motives.

  3. From back in the day before secularism got a stranglehold on Hoosier jurists comes this great excerpt via Indiana federal court judge Allan Sharp, dedicated to those many Indiana government attorneys (with whom I have dealt) who count the law as a mere tool, an optional tool that is not to be used when political correctness compels a more acceptable result than merely following the path that the law directs: ALLEN SHARP, District Judge. I. In a scene following a visit by Henry VIII to the home of Sir Thomas More, playwriter Robert Bolt puts the following words into the mouths of his characters: Margaret: Father, that man's bad. MORE: There is no law against that. ROPER: There is! God's law! MORE: Then God can arrest him. ROPER: Sophistication upon sophistication! MORE: No, sheer simplicity. The law, Roper, the law. I know what's legal not what's right. And I'll stick to what's legal. ROPER: Then you set man's law above God's! MORE: No, far below; but let me draw your attention to a fact I'm not God. The currents and eddies of right and wrong, which you find such plain sailing, I can't navigate. I'm no voyager. But in the thickets of law, oh, there I'm a forester. I doubt if there's a man alive who could follow me there, thank God... ALICE: (Exasperated, pointing after Rich) While you talk, he's gone! MORE: And go he should, if he was the Devil himself, until he broke the law! ROPER: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law! MORE: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? ROPER: I'd cut down every law in England to do that! MORE: (Roused and excited) Oh? (Advances on Roper) And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you where would you hide, Roper, the laws being flat? (He leaves *1257 him) This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast man's laws, not God's and if you cut them down and you're just the man to do it d'you really think you would stand upright in the winds that would blow then? (Quietly) Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake. ROPER: I have long suspected this; this is the golden calf; the law's your god. MORE: (Wearily) Oh, Roper, you're a fool, God's my god... (Rather bitterly) But I find him rather too (Very bitterly) subtle... I don't know where he is nor what he wants. ROPER: My God wants service, to the end and unremitting; nothing else! MORE: (Dryly) Are you sure that's God! He sounds like Moloch. But indeed it may be God And whoever hunts for me, Roper, God or Devil, will find me hiding in the thickets of the law! And I'll hide my daughter with me! Not hoist her up the mainmast of your seagoing principles! They put about too nimbly! (Exit More. They all look after him). Pgs. 65-67, A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS A Play in Two Acts, Robert Bolt, Random House, New York, 1960. Linley E. Pearson, Atty. Gen. of Indiana, Indianapolis, for defendants. Childs v. Duckworth, 509 F. Supp. 1254, 1256 (N.D. Ind. 1981) aff'd, 705 F.2d 915 (7th Cir. 1983)

  4. "Meanwhile small- and mid-size firms are getting squeezed and likely will not survive unless they become a boutique firm." I've been a business attorney in small, and now mid-size firm for over 30 years, and for over 30 years legal consultants have been preaching this exact same mantra of impending doom for small and mid-sized firms -- verbatim. This claim apparently helps them gin up merger opportunities from smaller firms who become convinced that they need to become larger overnight. The claim that large corporations are interested in cost-saving and efficiency has likewise been preached for decades, and is likewise bunk. If large corporations had any real interest in saving money they wouldn't use large law firms whose rates are substantially higher than those of high-quality mid-sized firms.

  5. The family is the foundation of all human government. That is the Grand Design. Modern governments throw off this Design and make bureaucratic war against the family, as does Hollywood and cultural elitists such as third wave feminists. Since WWII we have been on a ship of fools that way, with both the elite and government and their social engineering hacks relentlessly attacking the very foundation of social order. And their success? See it in the streets of Fergusson, on the food stamp doles (mostly broken families)and in the above article. Reject the Grand Design for true social function, enter the Glorious State to manage social dysfunction. Our Brave New World will be a prison camp, and we will welcome it as the only way to manage given the anarchy without it.

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