Law school ranking rumble

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University of Notre Dame Law School Dean Nell Jessup Newton admits she has mixed feelings about the annual law school rankings compiled and published by U.S. News & World Report.

On the one hand, the rankings provide some good consumer information to students thinking about getting a legal education. But on the other hand, Newton said, the rankings have too much influence on the choices made by students, hiring practices of law firms and even the behavior of law schools in general.

Since the different groups do pay attention and blogs spotlight even the slightest movements on the list, law school deans cannot ignore the rankings no matter how much they may disparage them. Commonly, deans complain the comparison by U.S. News focuses on things that have little impact on the quality of education and do not measure the elements that schools value.

Austen Parrish, still in his first semester as dean of Indiana University Maurer School of Law, holds a tempered view of the survey. They are what they are, he said, and smart deans do not run their law schools based on the U.S. News evaluation.

Still, Parrish acknowledges deans are not immune to the excitement or disappointment caused by a high or low ranking.

“I think as much as deans rail against it,” he said, “if they move up in the ranking, they celebrate pretty hard.”

valpo-15col.jpg Valparaiso University Law School has always been listed in the “rank not published” section of the U.S. News & World Report rankings because the rank falls below its cutoff. (Photo submitted)

For the 2015 U.S. News Law School Rankings, Notre Dame placed at No. 26 and Indiana University Maurer School of Law shared the No. 29 slot with the University of Georgia. Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law tied for No. 87 with six other schools including Michigan State University and the University of Louisville.

Valparaiso University Law School retained its listing as “rank not published” because its placement fell below the cutoff line. The Indiana Tech Law School was not part of the rankings because it has not been accredited by the American Bar Association.

How it works

Each year the news magazine issues its best graduate schools lists, ranking law schools, medical schools, engineering schools, business schools, and undergraduate programs, among others. For law schools, the annual list has a great impact because U.S. News is about the only organization that reviews the accredited law schools in the country. The legal blog, Above the Law, created its own Top 50 law schools list last year based on different criteria, mostly employment outcomes.

According to U.S. News, the methodology behind its rankings measures 12 separate elements and then applies a weighted average so all the elements do not have an equal impact on the overall score. The 12 factors include assessments by law school deans as well as lawyers and judges, median LSAT score and median undergraduate GPA of the incoming class, expenditure per student, and bar passage rates, along with employment rate for graduates nine months after completing law school.

Bob Morse, director of data research for U.S. News & World Report, explained the rankings include budget, job placement and prestige because the focus is from a student perspective. The survey does not measure faculty achievement or scholarly activity but instead concentrates on the factors that students can understand and use.

“Our intent isn’t to be a powerful force with the rankings,” Morse said. “U.S. News did not start doing the rankings with the goal of becoming an influential force in law school policy.”

However, Morse pointed out that of all the academic disciplines ranked by the magazine whether medicine, library science or any of the others, the strongest reaction to the listing comes from the law schools. One reason is because the other schools are critiqued by a couple of different organizations, but among law schools, U.S. News holds almost a monopoly on the survey.

At Notre Dame’s Mendoza College of Business, Dean Roger Huang agreed the rankings from U.S. News do not hold as much sway with business schools.

Yet, he said if his college would drop in the rankings, he would reassure the alumni that the decline was not the result of something the college did or di


d not do. In addition, Huang would emphasize the institution was sticking to its mission of educating the hearts and minds of the students to be ethical and use business in the proper way.

“We do not run our program to conform to the rankings,” Huang said.

Newton, Parrish and Andrew Klein, dean of the Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law, echoed Huang. In addition, they all maintained the U.S. News survey does not give a complete picture of their schools, and they questioned the magazine’s methodology.
As an example, Klein pointed out that a small two-point move in a school’s median LSAT can cause a dramatic swing in the rankings but have zero impact on the quality of education.

Parrish attributed IU Maurer’s slip in the rankings to a drop in the school’s job placement. The Bloomington law school declined four places in the 2015 listing to No. 29 because, he explained, personnel problems in the school’s placement office lowered the employment rate for students in the class of 2012. Since then, the law school has hired a new assistant dean of career and professional development, and the employment rate for the class of 2013 is 11 percent higher than for 2012.

“A one-year blip isn’t any concern to me at all,” Parrish said.

At Notre Dame, Newton has counseled students who enroll in programs solely based on the rankings. She has seen students forgo scholarships from law schools located in the area of the country they want to practice and instead pay full tuition and go someplace they don’t intend to stay just to attend an institution that is one or two slots higher in the rankings.

Despite her concerns about the influence the rankings have and the lack of transparency behind the calculations, Newton has never contacted U.S. News to discuss the situation. The rankings are a website, she said, that does not draw on the expertise of journalists, statisticians or social scientists.

“I don’t respect them enough to engage with them,” she said. “I don’t think they are going to listen to me.”

Morse said U.S. News does not tailor the rankings in response to law schools’ complaints and criticisms. Consequently, the rankings have credibility, he said, because the magazine is an independent judge.

He then noted what he called the hypocrisy of the law schools. For all the griping law schools do, 66 percent of the deans respond when U.S. News requests information.

Law schools do have the option of not providing data and assessments to the news magazine, but Newton compared that option to the prisoner’s dilemma. Unless all the schools refuse to participate, those that do not return the forms will be punished with a lower ranking.

As such, Newton said she would not stop participating because she does not want Notre Dame to fall in the rankings. She does not want to hurt the students and alumni by having the school’s reputation downgraded.

Former IU McKinney dean Gary Roberts did not respond to U.S. News data requests for several years. When Klein became dean, the law school resumed submitting the data.

In fact, when Klein was interviewed for the dean position, he was asked about the rankings. He replied although the school was forced to pay attention to them, he would be ethical in reporting the data and not fudge it. He also asserted he would not make any changes that he thinks would diminish the program for the students just to do better in the rankings.

Klein agrees with Roberts that the rankings do not present an accurate portrayal of the quality of education offered at IU McKinney, but there is the need to be pragmatic because people pay attention.

“There are many flaws in the rankings,” Klein said. “I don’t think that U.S. News does a very good job of measuring the quality of an institution’s education. But, unfortunately, some people pay attention to the rankings. We were doing a disservice to our law school by not participating.”•


  • Lawyers as the new priesthood
    Don't believe me, listen to Pacino:
  • Law School as nation building
    Law school is social control the goal to produce a social product. As such it began after the Revolution and has nearly ruined us to this day: "“Scarcely any political question arises in the United States which is not resolved, sooner or later, into a judicial question. Hence all parties are obliged to borrow, in their daily controversies, the ideas, and even the language, peculiar to judicial proceedings. As most public men [i.e., politicians] are, or have been, legal practitioners, they introduce the customs and technicalities of their profession into the management of public affairs. The jury extends this habitude to all classes. The language of the law thus becomes, in some measure, a vulgar tongue; the spirit of the law, which is produced in the schools and courts of justice, gradually penetrates beyond their walls into the bosom of society, where it descends to the lowest classes, so that at last the whole people contract the habits and the tastes of the judicial magistrate.” ? Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
  • thanks for your relpy jane
    Thanks Jane. I think US News likes to move print and sell advertising so it makes up polls like this to keep some eyeballs on its fading magazine operation. A ranking like this helps create perception that propels the reality you refer to; nonetheless, I was referring to the overall quality of the education offered at these schools. I am modestly familiar with the course work and professorships of several law schools from Indiana and also including Chicago and I would say that, excepting University of Chicago which truly is a top tier school, the rest of them are not that different. Oh, some have fancier facilties, who can begrudge the beauty of the Notre Dame campus or Northwestern, some have bigger name professors, some have more access to better paying employers, but guess what, some of the "lower" schools actually prepare lawyers better than the more expensive ones. I think the biggest differences are in tuition, and selection criteria. The rest of it is mostly "sales puffing." I also think that law students should probably thank themselves if they don't enslave themselves to "Big Law" and all that entails. I know a few who would say its just not worth the money.
    • Applicants Should Care Because Some Employers Care
      Au contraire, Mr. Smith. Employers look beyond the quality of education received, and for that reason so should law school applicants. The reputation of a law school, including its rank in US News & World Report, does not make a graduate a better attorney. Yet, the reputation does heighten the appeal of the graduate's resume for employers. An internet search for beginner associate positions in larger cities occasionally renders listings for open positions that are only open to graduates from a Top 30 or Top 50 law school. While this requirement is uncommon, it indicates many employers' desire to hire graduates from schools with the greatest reputations. Other employers for whom graduation from a Top "X" law school is important may not be so frank about it as to include it in their postings. The bias towards hiring graduates of more prestigious law schools can be subtle and still impact hiring decisions. Many legal employers only have so much time or resources to devote to recruiting. On-campus interviews are a great tool, but they require practicing attorneys, often partners, to take a full day, sometimes more, off work to visit law schools and interview prospects. It is a great opportunity for employers and students alike to get connected. Many employers do not conduct OCI at every law school in the state. Some law firms that maintain offices across the nation, and not unusually overseas as well, do not have OCI at more than one school in a state. Whether employer bias towards graduates of law schools with greater reputations is overt or subtle, universal or uncommon, justified or not, the bias does exist. It makes a difference in some hiring decisions. If it makes a difference in some hiring decisions, applicants to law school who want a job after graduating should consider the reputation of the law schools to which they are applying.
    • who cares?
      Who cares about this, other than gullible law school applicants who think that a few notches up or down will matter? kl The quality of education offered for the 20s is not that different than the quality offered at the 100s level. Neglible difference. Heres a better list:

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      1. OK, take notice. Those wondering just how corrupt the Indiana system is can see the picture in this post. Attorney Donald James did not criticize any judges, he merely, it would seem, caused some clients to file against him and then ignored his own defense. James thus disrespected the system via ignoring all and was also ordered to reimburse the commission $525.88 for the costs of prosecuting the first case against him. Yes, nearly $526 for all the costs, the state having proved it all. Ouch, right? Now consider whistleblower and constitutionalist and citizen journalist Paul Ogden who criticized a judge, defended himself in such a professional fashion as to have half the case against him thrown out by the ISC and was then handed a career ending $10,000 bill as "half the costs" of the state crucifying him. THE TAKEAWAY MESSAGE for any who have ears to hear ... resist Star Chamber and pay with your career ... welcome to the Indiana system of (cough) justice.

      2. GMA Ranger, I, too, was warned against posting on how the Ind govt was attempting to destroy me professionally, and visit great costs and even destitution upon my family through their processing. No doubt the discussion in Indy today is likely how to ban me from this site (I expect I soon will be), just as they have banned me from emailing them at the BLE and Office of Bar Admission and ADA coordinator -- or, if that fails, whether they can file a complaint against my Kansas or SCOTUS law license for telling just how they operate and offering all of my files over the past decade to any of good will. The elitist insiders running the Hoosier social control mechanisms realize that knowledge and a unified response will be the end of their unjust reign. They fear exposure and accountability. I was banned for life from the Indiana bar for questioning government processing, that is, for being a whistleblower. Hoosier whistleblowers suffer much. I have no doubt, Gma Ranger, of what you report. They fear us, but realize as long as they keep us in fear of them, they can control us. Kinda like the kids' show Ants. Tyrannical governments the world over are being shaken by empowered citizens. Hoosiers dealing with The Capitol are often dealing with tyranny. Time to rise up: Back to the Founders! MAGA!

      3. Science is showing us the root of addiction is the lack of connection (with people). Criminalizing people who are lonely is a gross misinterpretation of what data is revealing and the approach we must take to combat mental health. Harsher crimes from drug dealers? where there is a demand there is a market, so make it legal and encourage these citizens to be functioning members of a society with competitive market opportunities. Legalize are "drugs" and quit wasting tax payer dollars on frivolous incarceration. The system is destroying lives and doing it in the name of privatized profits. To demonize loneliness and destroy lives in the land of opportunity is not freedom.

      4. Good luck, but as I have documented in three Hail Mary's to the SCOTUS, two applications (2007 & 2013),a civil rights suit and my own kicked-to-the-curb prayer for mandamus. all supported in detailed affidavits with full legal briefing (never considered), the ISC knows that the BLE operates "above the law" (i.e. unconstitutionally) and does not give a damn. In fact, that is how it was designed to control the lawyers. IU Law Prof. Patrick Baude blew the whistle while he was Ind Bar Examiner President back in 1993, even he was shut down. It is a masonic system that blackballs those whom the elite disdain. Here is the basic thrust: When I asked why I was initially denied, the court's foremost jester wrote back that the ten examiners all voted, and I did not gain the needed votes for approval (whatever that is, probably ten) and thus I was not in .. nothing written, no explanation, just go away or appeal ... and if you appeal and disagree with their system .. proof positive you lack character and fitness. It is both arbitrary and capricious by its very design. The Hoosier legal elites are monarchical minded, and rejected me for life for ostensibly failing to sufficiently respect man's law (due to my stated regard for God's law -- which they questioned me on, after remanding me for a psych eval for holding such Higher Law beliefs) while breaking their own rules, breaking federal statutory law, and violating federal and state constitutions and ancient due process standards .. all well documented as they "processed me" over many years.... yes years ... they have few standards that they will not bulldoze to get to the end desired. And the ISC knows this, and they keep it in play. So sad, And the fed courts refuse to do anything, and so the blackballing show goes on ... it is the Indy way. My final experience here: I will open my files to anyone interested in seeing justice dawn over Indy. My cases are an open book, just ask.

      5. Looks like 2017 will be another notable year for these cases. I have a Grandson involved in a CHINS case that should never have been. He and the whole family are being held hostage by CPS and the 'current mood' of the CPS caseworker. If the parents disagree with a decision, they are penalized. I, along with other were posting on Jasper County Online News, but all were quickly warned to remove posts. I totally understand that some children need these services, but in this case, it was mistakes, covered by coorcement of father to sign papers, lies and cover-ups. The most astonishing thing was within 2 weeks of this child being placed with CPS, a private adoption agency was asking questions regarding child's family in the area. I believe a photo that was taken by CPS manager at the very onset during the CHINS co-ocerment and the intent was to make money. I have even been warned not to post or speak to anyone regarding this case. Parents have completed all requirements, met foster parents, get visitation 2 days a week, and still the next court date is all the way out till May 1, which gives them(CPS) plenty of to time make further demands (which I expect) No trust of these 'seasoned' case managers, as I have already learned too much about their dirty little tricks. If they discover that I have posted here, I expect they will not be happy and penalized parents again. Still a Hostage.